We don't know what Angus can give us yet, so much of this will be hypothetical.

This year I expect there to be more people on-booth, and thus it will be essential to move some older hands away to running games and not-getting-in-the-way-duty.

-Matt

Realms Publishing

Last year we had 2 tables and, in theory, 6 of us on the stand (Matt, Andy, Malc, Iain, Gregor, Joe -- though Iain left early). I think that we could have accomodated 10 people on that size of set-up.

However, it's worth noting that last year we also had some "extras" on the booth (friends, partners, etc.) and I think they'll have to go this year. With them the stand was rather full of people last year. And people who just want to "hang out" at the booth can be awkward if that hanging out is directly in front of the stand and getting in the way.

Hanging out at the cafe or gaming areas is totally cool, and we should look to do that.

If we get 2 tables then I think we can have 10 people, and maybe 12 at a push. But it will require, as Matt notes, rotation of people on the stand and some of us to be purposefully not at the stand at times.

If we get one table then it'll be fewer people physically on the stand. At any one time 2-3 people can man a stand on the "retailer" side, with 2 running demos or roping on the "con" side. A few others will have to be running games elsewhere, or taking part on panels.

Also, Malc is a buy-in that doesn't take up people space. Space for books will be an issue. Any of the guys from GamesExpo have a feel for that?

On the other thread, seven people currently want to be on the stall. I'm assuming Matt wants in as well, making eight. Is there anyone else who is likely to want in?

From the perspective of someone wandering around, I thought there were too many people on last year (perhaps because of the friends and hangers-on).

Also...did I ever mention this?...I quite wanted a demo at about 1.30pm, but everyone seemed to be talking to other people, so I hung round for a bit, then gave up. That would be another reason for doing the hanging out elsewhere.

Mind you, I don't know much about games stalls, so it's possible I'm totally wrong.

Graham

Hi Graham, I think your perception is right about it being crowded last year.

I think we need to do a better job of putting people on "shifts" and I feel we did this way better at Games Expo. Lunch shifts also need to be worked out.

I've updated the other thread to see if Tim and Matt are wanting in.

We also have to see if we can get a nice set-up like last year iwth demo tables opposite the booth. I'm hopeful.

You were a customer Graham, as well as an external pov, therefore totally right.

There were (at times) too many people on the stall, as well as a wall of impenetrable enthusiastic bodies in front of it at times too, much the same problem as we had at Games Expo. This was cool that we had people to talk to and all, but at times it did get in the way of other folks wanting a demo or to buy a game.

I think at Games Expo we overcame this by being quite strict about people being in front of the stall, or rotating people on and off. We may need to do this at Dragonmeet too.

Is it worth scheduling some full length games too? Might be a way of keeping the numbers down by spreading the CE crowd about.

On the subject of books - I never sell my d20 stuff anyway, so I think I'll leave it at home this time. How many new books will we have by Christmas? Another 3 or 4? Do we need to get more stands?

In the past we've often had books doubled up (i.e. put into two stands). Could you count up how many stands we have (you've got them all now, right?) and we can muse on #stands versus desired #stands.

We might also wonder about what sizes we need for our ashcans, books (various sizes) and literature (which we need to get done for DM -- thinking postcards here).

As far as I know, yep! Next time I brave the ladder into the attic I'll do a count of them.

...about resolving space issues. I guess we'll come to that if it happens.

But I'm hopeful that we can find a solution, which even if it isn't perfect for everyone is agreeable to all.

I think we'd try and resolve it between all of us, if that makes sense.

...make a suggestion?

Last year there was a really big table covered with a black cloth and a handful of books strewn about it. I walked up to the table, having briefly spoken online to some of the people there. I introduced myself to Malcolm, who bent forward awkwardly to shake my hand over the table. We chatted for while, all the time Malcolm leaning over the huge table and looking quite uncomfortable. After a minute, he gave up on that and ran around the table to speak to me face-to-face, which was much better.

All of this leads me to believe that the huge double table was actually more of a hindrance than a help. It was kind of in the way and didn't really need to be there. Or at least, not so big.

It looked great and all the other stalls have them, but bear in mind that most of the other stalls had a large amount of stuff for sale and were essentially running market stalls. Which is cool as fuck if you're Leisure Games for example: you need a metric shitload of table space to show customers all the great stuff you have in stock so they can buy it.

I'd suggest thinking about this: Rather than one huge table, how about two smaller ones with a gap in the middle. That is, assuming there's the same amount of space as last year, maybe think about setting it up like this:

Last year:

Possibly this year:

The idea being that you can talk to people and stand right next to them in the gap in the middle, while the two small tables still mark out the edges of the stall and mark out the "turf"so to speak.

Hi Rich

Thanks for the feedback.

The tables aren't laid out or provided by us, we get the stall pretty much from Dragonmeet and I guess there might be issues with us changing the layout. We can ask, but it's out of our hands in some ways.

What works well for us is having people on the client side of the stall, acting as meet and greet or ropers for games. That should have worked for you but it didn't. It's good for them to drift a bit off the actual front of the stand in case they get in the way (i.e. be out front but not stuck to the front).

I think when we've done that it works.

I do think that having an area behind the stall to keep stock is useful. It's also useful to have a couple of folk behind the stall to handle sales and to keep an eye on the stand (i.e. monitor crowding, look for people trying to get at the stand, etc.).

So, I'm not sure that the normal layout doesn't work for us.

At Games Expo we thought it would be good to have a small round table on the stand and that could work too.

Oh, and one thing we have learned (and we need to remember): black books on the red cloth and other books on the black cloth. Matt spotted that at the end of Games Expo and the rest of us slapped our heads.

Oh, and we should have more books on the stand this year, right?

I keep hearing the term "Ropers" but I've never seen it explained.

Wassitmeen?

They're partly the people you meet at the door at ASDA. Hello, How Are You?, Can I Help You?

And they're partly there to rope people into games. Looking For A Demo? Would You Be Interested In A Game Of Chased By A Bear? Fancy A Quick Game?

So ropers as they rope people in for demos.

Suddenly, everything becomes clear.

How long were they, last year? And did that length work?

How much of the time was the demo table used for?

Oh, and what was the other thing? Oh, that's it. Were they kept to time or was there some fluidity?

Graham

Last year I stuck rigidly to 15 minutes, which particularly pleased Malcolm.

OK, so I may have drifted over a bit. But perhaps somewhat purposefully.

I found that closer to 30 mins worked well. Steve Dempsey was doing 30 minute demos of Esoterrorists and I'm hopeful that he'll give his thoughts on that length of demo too.

The reason 15-minute demos work well at the Forge Booth in Indianapolis is that there is always pressure (i) for someone else to use the table, and (ii) for the players themselves to go somewhere else and catch more of the show.

I think both those aren't pressures at Dragonmeet. (Those reasons are still there but not at a pressure level.)

If you give someone 15 minutes, which is little more than Hello! Here is the Game. Bang! Oh, done! then UK gamers tend to feel cheated. Especially if they perceive that you don't have anyone else to be demoing too, so it's not like you couldn't have afforded to spend an extra 10-15 minutes showing them it actually playing.

So, the people that did stick rigidly to 15 minutes last year, like Malcolm, probably came across as too curt in their demoing.

Now, you can go too far the other way and that is bad, since it does eat up table space that other folks could be using. And players, let's be honest, will want a "session" if they can get it, and any way they can get it. But, look, we don't want to have folks anchored to our demo tables for 3 hours, or even an hour. Those length of games can be hived off to the organised gaming tables.

So, last year there was some unclairty, with some shooting for 15 minutes and others like me drifting a bit.

The key thing is...

The group being demoed will be understanding of that, they got their 30 mins.

Needlessly worrying about the social impact of telling someone to wind it up is not needed. We all lose track of how long 15 or 30 mins actually is and you're doing us a favour by telling us to move on.

...the demo tables were not used by demos, they had some hangers on and pals sitting chatting, possibly having lunch.

Why? Any ideas?

Was it that we didn't have enough people on the stand to run games there? Were there fewer punters? Were people put off thinking that the table was being used?

Most of the demos ran for 20-25 minutes, and only once (if I recall) did this cause a problem. Once I had to boot a group of peeps off the table who were just playing cards too, but they were obliging (and I think ended up in a demo too).

The demo tables were used fairly frequently throughout the day, although I only had a request for a single DoN demo. Pretty much as soon as the con got going we had demos running, although it wasn't continuous. There was definitely a lull around lunchtime and early afternoon, but this was the same everywhere - people were eating lunch!

Is there any mileage in package deals?

Buy Dead of Night or Covenant for £10 each (or whatever). Buy them together, it's £17.50.

Difficult to negotiate, I realise, but might well work.

Like I say, just an idea.

Graham

...so that shops get a breadth of our books rather than just one particular one they might have heard of. And they are very reasonable and sure to sell.

I'm not tempted to discount my books at cons terribly (moderately perhaps, as I am removing postage, but at the cost of hiring a table) as I feel they are already priced at good value.

It's not like I have to get volume through the till, y'know?

CGS normally do some sort of a|state and LGTME, etc. bundle. I wonder if they'll do one for Cold City and the Companion?

I kinda like the idea of gamers paying the price because they agree with me that the book is worth it, in and of itself.

To address a few points raised:

I can't see us doing a bundle price for CC and the Companion. To my mind, they are both priced very well (the Companion especially, I think it represents tremendous value for money).

For me, 15 minute demos are ideal. I get across what is cool about the game in that space of time and show how the mechanics work to support that. For me, 30 minutes would just be more waffle (probably on my part, because I'm a setting enthusiast and history geek, so I'd warble on a bit). However, this works for me. It doesn't work for Gregor, who enjoys to do a slightly longer demo, which is ideal for BF as it allows you to have character creation (which is ultra cool and gets people involved) and then a couple of conflicts. For Cold City, sitting down and getting people to come up with agendas would make the demo much more difficult (e.g.: agendas don't mesh, people find it had to come with something, etc). Horses for course, as they say.

However, I will be writing a new demo for a|state that will come in at about 30 minutes. Would anyone be interested in demoing that? It's likely to be more setting focussed and, hopefully, encourage the players to ask questions about the setting, which will form a big part of the demo. My hope is to encourage a small bit of setting exploration through questions and actions.

As for the booth setup, I'm sure Angus would at least be open to some discussion about how to set up our booth for best effect. He might not be able to accomodate all of our needs, but he is at least a decent enough chap to take time to listen to us.

And scheduling full games is the ideal way of rotating people away from the booth. Someone runs a game on the schedule for one half of the day, then is on the booth for other half. As long as the people that are on the booth during one period know how to (collectively) demo and talk about all the games there, we're sorted.

And I totally agree: friends, hangers on and people who just want to hang out need to be politely but firmly asked to move away. There was too much of that last year. I for one was guilty, at time, of participating in just such activities, which is why it was very much at the front of my mind at Games Expo.

I'm quite sad I'm not going to be at Dragonmeet this year.

Cheers
Malc

Contested Ground Studios

If no one else wants to pick up the a|state demo I'll be more than happy to do it. I think that it will maybe benefit, like say Esoterrorists, from a longer demo to let people soak in the world.

Looking forward to it.

I'd be interested in having A|State demoed to me, but I've never ran or played it so can't really give it a good demo!