That's an interesting one. I'm not entirely up to speed in my 'Forge speak' but let me ask this simple question. Is it actually possible to design a core mechanic the supports all three styles of play equally well depending on which other of the games settings are turned on and off (as it were)? This question goes out (I guess) to the more experience designers here as much as to the OP. Essentially what I'm asking is can a (say) conflict resolution system designed to handle pure Nar play actually be flipped about and used to determine the outcome of pure Sim play?

Hi, Runt (do you have a real name?)

At this stage, I'd say it's best to make the game do what you want and fascilitate the kind of play you desire.

Just do that.

Playtest it, and learn to develop a critical eye as to what is helping the people at the table produce that kind of play and what isn't. Get used to looking at the behaviours that emerge from your game's rules, rather than from ingrained playing habits.

So, with that in mind. Tell us what the game is about, and we'll try to help. What's the game situation. What's do the players do? What do the characters do?

Don't think it terms of Sim, Nar or whatever. Just this game, that these folks are going to get together and play.

-Matt

Realms Publishing

I'm sometimes known as Charles Brown from the small games company NuMediaJunk (http://www.numediajunk.net).

The game is about Supernatural investigation in a world of light vs dark based on Sergey Lukyanenko's epic novel "Night Watch".

The game situation is your characters is in the Watch (either night or day depending on what sort of game is being run) maintaining the balance between light and dark others.

Players control a character in the game but because of the way the game world is set they can also have control over the balance, allowing narrative control of how supernatural effects work and what they actually do.

The reason for the question is that we've got a nifty dice mechanic that allows various levels of play, simulation where the system becomes really "crunchy", narrative where it's "fast and loose" and with elements of narrative control and tactical where it's more about how you do things then what you do.

Pretty much yes, the system is a dice matching system which for simulative you are looking at the numbers (low is not good success, high is great success, etc, etc) and for narrative you are just looking for a closer match then anyone else.

It's possible to even flip systems mid-game but would probably hurt a little.

Nice choice of setting inspiration!

However, I'm going to assume you mean a setting, similar to, but of your own devising. Cos you don't have the NW license, right?

Now, on to your nifty dice mechanic.

It isn't Sim or Nar specific in the Forge sense (and boy does the Narration != Narrativist thing cause headaches). From what you're said, it's a mechanic that lets the players know who's got the right to say what and when. Call this Authority over the fiction.

Splitting up that authority is a technique, and could be used for any style of play. It is definitely a useful thing to discuss when designing your game though.

If what you're asking is: can I have mechanics that distribute authority and allow for fast and loose or zoomed in and gritty? Then yep it could be done.

Hows and whys depend on what you want the game to do. Which gets back to that "what is the game about?" Question. Or rather, "how is it about it?"

-Matt

Realms Publishing

"Cos you don't have the NW license, right?"

Scary negotiations i am continually avoiding and letting the more sensible people handle are in progress.

The who is it about is about The Others and how they preserve the balance.

So, you've got a setting concerning a supernatural balance of light and dark.

The thing to look at is how your game is going to be about that. Are characters moment to moment having to make choices about that balance, or is it background colour to a McGuffin hunt? Those are two very different games.

What process of play do you want to result from your text?

For example, your nifty mechanic with shared authority at some levels, and gritty detail at others, will create and resolve certain situations. Are those the situations and kinds of resolution that turn up in the NW fiction?

Or, to turn it around, define the kinds of situations you want to turn up, and make sure your process of play creates them.

-Matt

Realms Publishing

If you want to brush up on your "forge speak" you should check out the glossary over at the Forge.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure that you can flip between GNS by just tweaking settings. I think it's something that runs deeper than that, to the core of a game.

At least, I _think_! I'm no expert myself. But I'd be interested to hear if it was possible!

How does that change it from simulative to narrative? (I'm genuinely interested, not trying to quibble or anything!)

In the narrative "mode" you are trying to vie for control of the story, if you win you get to say what happens next.

In simulative "mode" you are trying to "beat" the gamesmaster's challenge, if you win your character succeeds in his current goal.

So for an example, in narrative mode I win and can describe the fight scene whilst in simulative mode I am seeing if I can hit the opponent and what happens (in terms of damage) when I do.

You might want to check out the games Shadow of Yesterday and Conspiracy of Shadows, both of which use a "zoomed out /zoomed in" approach similar to this quite successfully. They have free versions of the rules online, which a googling should turn up.

As an aside, talking about those two approaches as Narrative and Simulative is going to tie the discussion in knots when chatting to folks who are used to Forge-type analysis, where they're referring to completely different elements of play.

Back at the topic at hand, have you got a playtest version of your rules yet? I'm sure a few folks here would like to look 'em over.

-Matt

Realms Publishing

Alas no I don't but here's a quick and grubby version;

Die: D8
Strength -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 Strength
Dexterity +3 +2 +1 0 -1 -2 -3 Dexterity

So in this example we have the attributes Strength and Dexterity bonded (you can use XP and stuff to unbond them) but generally the stronger you are the less agile you are and vice versa.

System wise, check the die type in this case it's D8 so you are rolling two d8 and looking for a match on both dice.

So what's this +/- thing for, well for every + you have you can increase the difference between the numbers, so if you are rolling strength and have +2 you don't have to roll a 3 and a 3 you can roll a 2 and a 4 and you will still have passed.

But what about a negative, something you aren't so good at, well for every - you have the difference between the die increases, so with a -1 you'd have to roll a d6 and a d8 and still get a match and with a -3 you'd have to go for a d4 and a d10 (d8 becomes d6 then d4 but that's only 2 steps, you could decrease again for a d3 and d8 but in this case the player has opted to increase the d8 to a d10 for the third die difference increase)

Then it goes back to the very original question of what type of game you are playing, in a narrative game you are simply looking to pass to gain narrative control of what happens next.

In the simulative game you are looking to pass to see what degree of success you obtain (with the higher the number and the closer the match being, the better success, double 8 being the best you could do in this case)

So that's the quick version, hopefully will have some vaugly comprehensible playtest rules up soon and yeah the D-Anything system is (C) NumediaJunk 2006 and so on and so forth.

OK, that makes sense as a set of dice rolls, I think. I'd probably want to know what successes actually do to properly grasp its impact on play.

Anyhow, that's not my main question. That's a bit more involved, and is a really useful one. What's the process that leads up to a roll?

To expand on that. Who decides if a roll needs to be made? Who decides what it's resolving? Who decides if it's a roll to see who describes stuff or a roll to get successes? Who decides what the scope of description if that's what is won?

-Matt

Realms Publishing

What leads up to a roll depends on what you are rolling for ^^

Seriously however, in the simulative setting the GM will say, "Roll this..." or "Roll that..." and you roll and look up your bonus/negative in a particular attribute and hope for the best, get a match or have a bonus that lets you succeed, yay you pass and do what ever you were trying to do.

In a narratrive setting you are rolling with everyone else invested in the conflict to describe the outcome of the roll.
The person with the closest match is allowed "a paragraph" to describe what happens, the person after that a sentance, after that a phrase and finally a word with much horrible hurtyness as everyone falls over each other interupting and trying to slide in thier little bit before the paragraph ends.

As an example;

Amy - 2nd
Bob - 1st
Cynthia - Came last
Dave - 3rd

Cynthia being the GM as well, oh well...

Bob starts to describe the outcome of this roll which at this conflict point is going to be a strength check to overturn a car.

Bob: Placing both hands on the metal frame work of the car.

At which point Cynthia interupts and uses her word, "sharp" indicating she'd like it before metal.

Bob will probably glare a bit and continue his description;

Bob: I carefully start to push trying to avoid too much pain as the car starts to pivot on it's wheels.

At which point Dave interupts with;

Dave: Easily flipping upright

Bob smiles slightly now only to glare at Amy as she uses her sentence;

Amy: The momentum of the pushing action causing it to flip over onto it's other side.

Bob grumbles before getting to finish;

Bob: Rolling over onto the roof in the rough gravel road before tumbling one final time back onto it's wheels.

And that's how narrative currently works for it.

OK, cool, but you're kinda jumping ahead.

Who decides whether you're using roll for authority or roll for task success? When do they decide that, on a conflict by conflict basis or at the start of play?

What triggers that choice of resoution method?

-Matt

Realms Publishing