Ok, I hope you don't mind me revealing sales figures in public?

Best Friends 3
Cold City 2
Contenders 2
Covenant 1
Dead of Night 3
Etherscope: the Lemurian Candidate 1
Swansong 1
Umlaut ashcan 1

As you can see, sales were fairly even, which is good, but very low, which is bad! I made enough to cover my con costs, if not my travel costs, so that's a good thing I guess!

The stall was...well...I walked round the hall three times looking for it and only noticed it when Andrew shouted and waved.

Interesting point about full length games vs demos.

Graham

Think of the stall, was the banner up to indicate what it was all about? I'd imagine the stall would be pretty distinctive, what with the cloth, the banner and all the books. I take it the entire thing was huddled away in a corner or something?

I don't think sales are too bad, given the kind of con you're describing it as. A couple of books is better than no books at all. Above all, it established a presence for future cons and also serves to highlight our existence to new folks.

I think that cons vary in terms of what they offer. Dragonmeet is a very good 'sales' con from our point of view. Whereas something like Conception (or may Irish cons like Gaelcon) and much more games fpcussed. many people come to Dragonmeet with the intention of buying stuff, at other cons people come purely to game. Horses for courses, really.

It's not something to be disappointed about, Andrew. It sounds like you did a sterling job of demoing and running games, so hats off to you for that.

Cheers
Malcolm

Contested Ground Studios

Thanks for this Andrew.

I think Graham's point about the table not being obvious may be telling. That said, can I ask what other retail presence there was at the Con, if any? If people aren't expecting sales, then they won't look for them...

It might be a Con more suited to a Games Track events.

-Matt

Realms Publishing

Guys,

Conception is an odd con, there's very, very little trader presence. Usually, there's a stall selling boardgames and wargames stuff, one selling RPGs and suff, a stall selling Larp stuff and a bring and buy for people's junk. Considering there are several hundred people there, that's not much really. in 2006 year the RPG trader went tits up, so there was a dedicated boradgame stall, a dedicated wargames stall, a dedicated Traveller RPG stall (BITS, who were also at Dragonmeet iirc), the larp stuff and the bring & buy (which was mostly the organiser's shop stock and they pretty much refused to take any B&B stock unless it was D&D 3.5). Even so, 6 traders for a con this size is bugger all. There was someone there with something called "When Worlds Collide" which was some sort of game they were trying to demo in the regular slots, but nobody ever seemed to sign up for it. Chris Loizou was there with his Cursed Empire stall and tables as usual, he's been there every year since it started. That means that if someone asks where the CE stall is, they'll get directed to the Cursed Empire stall.

As Andrew says, Conception is all about play. Because there's no trade hall or in fact anything to do except play games and drink booze (and even the Bar is pretty much full with tables which have Living Whatever running on them) people spend no time at all wandering about because generally there's no point. It's almost the polar opposite of Dragonmeet in that respect. Personally, I played or ran a game in every single slot except Sunday. On Sunday we played The Big Idea a bit, slept in and went home. The problem with that is that I had no time for anything at all except playing and running games.

Andrew and I chatted about the best way to "use" conception. We think that the perfect thing might be an "indie track" as Matt says, probably with the 9am slot used for playtests. I think that 4 hour slots used as regular con games ought to work really well to generate interest.

As Rich has said Conception is a very odd fish as far as cons go with most people coming to game, game, game and little else. In terms of stalls it's difficult to get in as a 'new' trader as most of the stalls there have been at Conceptions in one form or another for years. The B&B stall is by far the largest but, well, Rich has the right of it; old RPG's/D&D 3.0/3.5 and a bunch of board games/clix. Other than that there were a few stalls, one selling some miniture stuff, a couple selling board game stuff, one for LARP weapons, one for jewellery, the Cursed Empire stall and Bob's dice stall. Those are all spaced around the edge of the hall which is the default 'traders' area.

In contrast the CE stall wasn't a trade stall, it was just a reserved games table. Andrew set it up with a cloth cover and arranged the games at the 'front' of it in a similar style to how they were arranged at Dragonmeet. The banner was hung but the only place to hang it was waste height on some railings so that whenever anyone was sat at the table (or the table next to it) no one could see the sign anyway. All in all it was a perfectly good gaming table but a lousy trade stand, entirely because it WAS a games table, NOT a trade stall. Not Andrew's fault and he did what he could to mitigate it but, well, there just weren't a huge number of people browsing, especially not on what they would have naturally taken to be a gaming table.

As previously comment, I think Andy did a sterling job of demoing and stuff. I think there are some learning point for next year perhaps: try to get soem sort of organised games track and use a trade table as a centre for such a thing ("You liked that game? Well, we happen to have some here...").

I'm looking forward to hearing the AP reports for all the games and the feedback on the playtest sessions.

Cheers
Malcolm

Contested Ground Studios

There was a manic game of Mortal Coil played by a bunch of us on Friday night in my (and Andrew's) chalet (although Andrew was running Cold City in that slot and so didn't play) and, whilst I'd love to see an AP of it I wouldn't have a clue where to begin! Maybe Rich can do it justice, he was playing the game too, but without some form of sound recording of what transpired it seems unlikely. Bloody good fun though.

Not wish to take this thread off on too much of a tangent, that sounds quite similar to the Mortal Coil game I played at Gen Con last year. It was a great game and immense fun, but I can't actually remember what happened, other than a few selected snippets. Then again, it was meant to be a psychedelic, magical drug influenced version fo Swinging London, so maybe that wa sonly to be expected.

Cheers
Malcolm

Contested Ground Studios

Jesus, that was a lot of fun, but I have no chance of managing to explain it to anyone...

It started out with the usual game creation discussions and we settled on the idea of eastern vs western magical traditions in Hong Kong. Kinda like Taoists vs Hermetics. Then it was decided that it was 1997 and the handover was just around the corner.

It was decided that there was some kind of power struggle between both sides and that someone from the Indian community was mediating and keeping both sides in check. But that guy had just died and kicked off a massive magical turf war.

So we created characters and ended up with a pretty complex r-map that Scott hopefully still has. We had corrupt business men on both sides of the struggle, a British political type and an extreme sports guy who was someone's son. I was playing the only Taoist sorcerer in the HKPD who was investigating the murder and poking into everyone's closets for skeletons.

Early on in the game I think I really complicated things by establishing that Taoist Sorcerers could look back in time and see events which had happened in a given place. This then lead to a series of magical loopholes, memory-loss, time bending and other stuff that ended up with Schrodinger's murder, Kaiser Soze and probably the most confusing game I've played for a long time. Fucking awesome fun though, but hard to follow.

As I recall it ended up that the murdered Indian (Suresh?) did it and that the extreme sports guy (who was the German hermeticists son) wasn't quite the character everyone had thought he was... I have no idea how we got there though!

Booze and sleep deprivation, mostly...

We should really start some actual play threads for Conception ... I'd love to see one for the fantastic PTA game I played in on saturday.

Don't get me wrong guys - I had a fantastic time, and ran some great games. I don't mean to come across as negative, as it really was a good convention for me, in the sense that I enjoyed it.

But next year we'll do things differently. Ideally we'll have a stall separate (but next to) the demo table, and I'm making my case to the organisers to that effect. I think an indie games track would work wonderfully too.

Most of our sales came from people wandering by who had heard of the games, or people who signed up to the full slots and browsed the books as we were playing (I pushed the books to the back of the table when we played, which meant they weren't in the way but the players could flick through during breaks). My only regret in that regard is there wasn't time/energy to run more full-slotted games.

For me, Conception remains my favourite con, and this year was no exception. But Rich has it - it's an odd fish.

Here's my thoughts based on reading the posts (as a remote observer).

I feel that Conception isn't well suited to a regular trade stand.

Perhaps a better idea next year might be a "Collective Endeavour" chalet (or chalets?) where we're committed to running games and hanging out, and we just get on with running games and participating. And, if you want to buy a game, then there are some copies available so that you can. If people want to find us then they can, and most likely to actually play games (and possibly buy them).

It sounds like everyone down there is pretty much into slot after slot of gaming, and we probably should tailor what we do to match that expectation.

It sounds like Andy gave it a good go and I think the sales are actually very good (if you look at the totality of sales). For comparison, at WarpCon the indie table ended up as Sami, myself and Malcolm. So I'm very happy with how that side of things went at Conception, but I feel that we don't put Andy through that again and just let him get on with gaming.

Play to the strengths of the con, etc.

Possibly so. I definitely think that regularly slotted games centred around a regular table/chalet would work well, especially if we advertise them as "Collective Endeavour games." People would sign up and pay for them in the usual manner of course.

Of course, the advantage of trade stands at Conception is that they're free, and chalets are cheap! The whole con cost me about £30 for accomodation and food.

Being Mr D Advocate for a moment:

Is there an argument that having only one member of the publishers element of the Endeavour represent the whole thing at a con is a little burdensome and unfair? I think Andy did a sterling job and it's obviously great to have had Rich, Graham, Geoff and others there. But Andy was the sole 'publisher' representation.

So, do we need to think of alternative strategies, not only for individual cons, but also for the level of representation we have at a given con?

Cheers
Malcolm

Contested Ground Studios

Well... it seems to me that Conception is a con where you should game first and foremost, and take games to sell if you get interest as a complementary goal.

I don't think spreading the load over two, three or n people on the stand would have generated any more sales at all.

More people attending and running games in slots might well have though. Time on the stand sounds like time away from gaming?

Obviously it was harder as it was just me, but because Conception is so damned friendly this didn't complicate things like it might do elsewhere. I mean, I could happily wander around and leave the stall, confident in the knowledge it would all be there when I returned.

I think the trick next time is to have games on sale at the table, and just make sure that I fill as many slots with games as possible. I think time spent milling about the table/stall is wasted, when I could be playing or running a game there instead.

I do like having a table there that is identifiable as ours. I think this might prove more useful than running games in chalets.

Andrew did a good job of running 'actual' games at the con but he's only 1 man and couldn't be expected to run three 4 hour games a day!

I think that the most helpful thing for the CE re: Conceptions would be to have 2+ GMs (preferably at least 3) who could then run games in every slot, with maybe a couple of slots through the con given over to Playtest Camp (plus night time playtests in chalets after the regular slots have finished.)

Of course that would be aided by non-CE but still community members (like Rich, Graham, Scott or myself) volunteering to GM games as I suspect that Conceptions is still likely to be mostly Andrew as a general thing. At least for the foreseeable future.

I'd be very happy to help out by running games, either demos or full sessions, any time I'm at the same con as a CE presence. So far that only looks like Dragonmeet and Conception this year (unless any of you are coming to Battlemasters), although you're more than welcome (highly encouraged, even) to have a stall at Concrete Cow in either March or September. We only tend to get 30-40 people turning up, but I'd say about half of them have an interest in indie games.

As far as AP reports for the Mortal Coil or Primetime Adventures games at Conception go, I'll see what I can do. I'm pretty lazy about writing games up, though, and the MC game in particular was a blur to me, so my report may consist of: "We bounced around ideas, people did stuff that made other people laugh a lot for a few hours, I got very confused, and someone's skin got worn like a cheap suit." Maybe the r-map will help when I find it.

Anyway, thanks again to all the CE crowd who were there. As both GMs and players, you made the con for me.

And you for me Scott! I had a blast playing PTA (Zombie Crimelord Bob was an inspired character ... and surprisngly deep) and Six Bullets!

I discovered Milton Keynes is only about 1 and a half to 2 hours south of here, and March 10th is free, so I might well come down.

In case anyone is interested I just put up a report of the con from my view on my Live Journal .

Well i was impressed with the collective endevour presence at Conception and i think he did a sterling job by himself. 14 games sold from the 6 or so games he ran is a great acheivement in my books, as stated before people dont go to Conception to shop, those that enjoyed thier game probably bought the book there and then, i know i did. Demand for the games was massive aswell, now had 3 CE members been there running you could possibly have trippled the sales to say 42, a better positioned desk with a banner and a person manning it to talk about the various games could have pulled any passing trade. IMO Andy did a sterling job but there needs to be a better presence from CE at next years con, having helpers run games is good but not as good as having the games designers there to run and talk about thier games. Conception is fast becoming the gamers 'must' go to con and CE need to be a part of this to promote games others dont know existed, had there been games of Mortal Coil, Dont Rest Your Head, Exoterrorists and others running, i would have probably blown out the mainstream stuff and stayed at your table for the whole con.

Thanks Mick! I had a great con (as I always do at Conception) and I'll definitely be back next time, maybe with a better stall and some more help! It's become clear that we need to fill the schedule with full-length indie games next time, and so I shall oblige!

Oh, and for the record, there was a game of Mortal Coil that ran, but it filled up very quickly!

Thats why it needs to be more than just you!!!!!! If 3 of you came, ran games, introduced indie to those who dont know about them, drank beer with us, im sure your sales would be much better even for a con thats not a 'shoppers' con!!!! The cost of your attendance is negligable so why not ensure that the 08 con has the presence that CE fully deserves. Take a load of copies of SotC and im sure you'll be selling all con!!!!!

I think one of the great advantages of Conception is that it's a gamer con, not a shopper con - we can kick back and game, and try to get people playing indie games. Hopefully that will have a knock on effect to sales, regardless of how much conscious selling we do.