I'm really just interested in Hot War (though Neil and I havent worked out if we're both doing it). From a CE point of view, Cold City has been your biggest seller. Buzz about the next game in the 'line' will undoubtedly help CE in the future. Might even sell more CC at the con. Playtesting is an investment.

I'll more than likely get some people interested in a game of Contenders at some point.

I would also suggest that she sheer amount of conversation about this is working against you. I really just want to turn up, run stuff, maybe help you guys sell some things. For me, it's an Indie Games Track, not a Collective Endeavor Games Track.

1. I think you have something Graham

2. The imperative to play-to-promote should only really lie upon the people who have bought into the stall?

3. I've read a number of threads talking about the slow down in sales on some of the mature titles and the need to get the newer titles out onto the shelves. This is a pleasant halfway house - a brand spanking new game in Solipsist borne of the convention itself and a relatively new game in Umlaut, a few advanced previews of this seasons CE new hawtness (Hot War, D&H etc) and the CE classic games represented as well.

4. From a wholly selfish p.o.v. I'm buying into Conpulsion and Games Expo even though I have nothing to sell personally because I want to get some exposure for D&H and see what the reaction is. If it's hated and spat at by small children in the street then all I have spent is £40.

5. I'd much rather run Hot War than Cold City. I have a creepy HW scenario written already and played through once. I'm dedicating March to getting D&H whipped into shape so I'm not going to have time to dedicate to developing a con-ready scenario for CC.

6. 'Diamonds are forever, forever, forever...'

Hey, end on a song!

Neil

Take the King's shilling at http://www.omnihedron.co.uk/dutyandhonour/

There is a lack of CE stuff in that list. There should be a healthy mix, so we don't dominate, but we stamp our presence, as it were. I think Iain being only able to make Sunday and Gregor being involved in organizing has had a slight dint.

I've finished my break. It was Furnace and Dragonmeet.

I did say I'd run both Covenant and PTA at the bottom of that thread. It may have got lost as it was a short post in a long thread. ;)

-Matt

Realms Publishing

I think we should put Covenant into the empty Saturday evening slot.

It would be good to work Mob Justice in there, too, perhaps replacing the Sampler slot on Sunday morning.

Neil,

2. The imperative to play-to-promote should only really lie upon the people who have bought into the stall?

Sure, yes. This is my fault for phrasing it wrong. Let me try to be a bit more positive.

We're trying to get something started with the Collective Endeavour. THere are some good British games and we're trying to promote them over here, get them out there, get them played.

To that end, we are really, genuinely, astonishingly grateful to anyone who runs our games. We like other indie games too: do run them if you'd like to. But we really like people who run our games.

(By the way, in case I wasn't clear, and especially to Pooka and Per: I'm not, by any means, suggesting booting the non-Collective Endeavour games from the Indie Games Track. But I'm hoping for more Collective Endeavour games to fill in the slots.)

The Collective Endeavour is all about mutual support. If you want to start being a part of that, the best thing you can possibly do is run someone else's game. Especially if you sell a copy. Which you will.

So, I am, to an extent, suggesting you read up on Collective Endeavour games and, perhaps, put aside your favourite indie game and run a CE game instead. Don't get me wrong, we'll give you table space for your favourite indie game, too. But do consider running a CE game.

I do this at conventions, actually. Last year, I ran Contenders at Conpulsion. At the previous Dragonmeet, I ran Best Friends. This year, I'm running Gumshoe, but that's because I'm friends with the guy who publishes it. So I'm deliberately choosing to support these games, because I think they're great, and need more play and sales. I'm hoping that other people will deliberately choose to support CE games, too.

So...there you are. Sorry if that was all happy. I'll go back to being grouchy now.

Oh, and. I really think Umlaut should run at Conpulsion. It's a new game and it should be on the schedule. Could anyone step up and do it? If not, I'll do it on Sunday afternoon, but it'll be the fifth game I'm running, so if someone else could do it, I'd really appreciate it. It's basically Contenders. If you can run Contenders, you can do Umlaut.

Graham

Sorry, I missed this whole drift toward a CE games track instead (or, rather I missed when it entered the debate)

I think I'm with Joe - I want to offer/play some games at the GOD table(s) and there's a shitload on offer there, CE and non-CE games because that wasn't really the issue. The only reason I'm not runnng Contenders is that so many people do. I lack proper experience in most of the other games, incl. CC which I've only played a snazz of.

With respect I'm not at Conpulsion to promote individual CE games, but to promote PLAYing these kinda wacky hippie games. If I should be, then I missed a trick.

I find your last post bordering on being offensive (to me), Graham, but I'm good with chatting over a beer about it (did I owe you one or was it vice versa?) - but you are spending the weekend promoting Gumshoe and telling me in the same breath to read up on CE games? I don't think so.

Per
http://darkplaces.squarespace.com

Edited for missing words and stuff.

I read it was more a kick up the butt for publisher folks to get their act in gear....

IGT is most definitely about running cool stuff you think folks will enjoy.

-Matt

Realms Publishing

I will see if Scott D is attending. If so, he might be running a game.

Basically though:

1) If you're there and you have a game which is on the stall, for the love of god run it. Unless you are Gregor who appears not to really have time (being one of the Con's organisers and all, that's not really surprising). Iain, run Mob Justice, Matt, run Covenant etc etc. To do otherwise is a pretty poor show. David is clearly leading by example here, by running 2 games of Solipsist.

2) If you're there and you have a game in late development which will be on the stall later, *cough* Neil *cough* run that sucker.

3) If you're not there but have a book on the stall, ask someone nicely if they wouldn't mind running something for you. I'm not going to be there, I'm really angling for someone to run a game of Umlaut but I also think I have it covered. On the other hand Umlaut isn't actually published yet (despite the fact that people can buy a copy) so I'm happy to make way for a game that "proper out".

4) I'd personally like to see at least half of the standard slotted games being run be CE games currently for sale. Another slab of nearly published games (HW and D&H). (I'm a bit miffed that I'm missing D&H to be honest, but hey.) But hey, I'm not dictating policy or owt.

5) GOD is just that, but obviously limited to what the people running it can run. So, like, whatever.

Per, no offense intended. Let's not argue. It'll be tiring all round.

This is really a response to the Booth Strategy thread, where, basically, everyone said "Let's make the booth about running games, to sell games".

So, I wanted to point out that we're not really doing that on this booth. We're hardly running any of the games we're selling.

I would, also, like to encourage non-CE people to run Collective Endeavour games. Of course, you're welcome to ignore my encouragement and run other indie games. I like those other indie games too.

Graham

For clarification's sake, I have never read, played, and don't own any CE games.

I have no interest in running any CE games at the moment. I was hoping to play in a couple at the Con, to gauge my interest in owning them, but there isn't any title that grabs me in the CE stables at the moment. That may change after Conpulsion - we'll see.

The list of games I might run will be edited when I have time, but won't include any CE games as of yet.

I've just confirmed that I'll be able to make it, and I'm definitely planning on running games. At the very least I can run Dead of Night, and, depending on how tomorrow's playtest goes, I may be tempted to run Hot War as well.

Where is the list for the IGT?

+++
JoE
+++

Prince of Darkness Games
Rock N' Role-Play....

It goes something like this. Again, this is something to be fought over, not How It Is.

I've used Dead of Night to fill the empty Saturday evening slot; I've given the Saturday evening Indie Sampler the boot; and I've moved Duty and Honour to Saturday night, rather than afternoon.

I'm much happier with this. More CE games, balanced with other good indie games.

If other CE designers want to run stuff (Contenders or Mob Justice, say), shout. We could shift things around further.

Graham

Table 1

Saturday morning: Solipsist with David
Saturday afternoon: Shock with Pooka
Saturday evening: Dead of Night with Scott

Sunday morning: Piledrivers and Powerbombs with Joe
Sunday afternoon: Solipsist with David

Table 2

Saturday morning: Duty and Honour playtest with Neil
Saturday afternoon: Covenant with Matt
Saturday evening: Hot War playtest with Neil

Sunday morning: Mob Justice with Iain
Sunday afternoon: A Need To Kill playtest with me

Graham

Joe and I are chatting off-list about the Hot War issue at the moment and it might well be that we both run something. I definitely will and Joe is perculating a very cool idea.

Would it be feasible to swap D&H and HW? Twee as it may sound I'd prefer to run my horror scenario in the evening?

Neil

Take the King's shilling at http://www.omnihedron.co.uk/dutyandhonour/

I'd be in favour of the swap as well, because it would let me try D&H on Sunday morning, which I would like :)

http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

...that's very sensible. Swapped.

While we're at it, Neil, I've put you down as running that Hot War playtest. No disrespect to Joe: I'm hoping he can either run his as part of GOD or we can fit him in with reshuffling on Sunday.

I'm still interested to see if anyone, especially designers, will run CE games: most likely candidates would be Contenders, Umlaut, Mob Justice, I think. If so, I think the Indie Sampler on Sunday morning should give way: but let's see whether anyone steps forward.

Graham

Iain will be at the con on the Sunday so Mob Justice then could be a goer.

I'm thinking I'll be able to run some short demos of Best Friends at the con... but I can't commit to running a game in a slot since I might need to fill in somewhere else. If I find demo time I'll also demo Dead of Night, a|state and Cold City (and I'll have demo packs for all of them).

Tim's stuff is where I'd like to know more so I can pitch it. Do you have any demo materials Tim?

I think you should all assume I will not be there on the saturday. Work is going a bit mental at the moment and lots of people are coming and going. I may be able to swing something closer to time.

I will happily run MJ on the sunday but would also be able to run a Reel Adventures playtest. MJ could easily slot into the GOD as well or instead of depending on what fits.

I will give questers a read, I have the for sale copies at my house, and have a think about running it.

Cheers

Iain

Mob Justice now available!

'The Giant Brain':Small games, big ideas.

Iain, I've put you on the Sunday morning slot on Table 2. It's marked for Mob Justice, but use it as you like. (But, you know, let us know).

That replaces the Indie Sampler slot, so if people feel strongly about that, do say.

Graham

Iain,

I think a slotted game of MJ would be a really good idea, as it the game of yours that is actually out there, now, on sale. Play sells and all that malarky!

Cheers
Malcolm

Contested Ground Studios

I would like to run Contenders and Piledrivers at some point.

+++
JoE
+++

Prince of Darkness Games
Rock N' Role-Play....

That's two more games (Contenders and Piledrivers) than we have slots left.

We should get at least one of those into the schedule: given a choice, probably Piledrivers, because it's new.

Possible solutions are:

1. Give one of the playtests the boot.
2. Move either Shock: or Burning Empires or both across to Games On Demand, given that Per and Pooka are doing lots of stuff there, anyway.
3. Replace Mob Justice with Piledrivers, given that Iain sounded happy with Mob Justice being part of GoD.

If you have any opinions on those options, do post them. Be nice about it.

Graham

I'm cool with moving BE to GOD, that's probably a good idea anyway I think.

And then I can go all out commando as a GOD :)

Per
http://darkplaces.squarespace.com

Thanks, Per.

Graham

Sorry Graham I would like MJ to be part of the schedule rather than GOD. I want it to get a play at Conpulsion as it kind of previewed there last year.

I was thinking about the playtests on the schedules. Should we really be doing that during the con itself? Can they be left to evening play instead? I was just thinking that the more released games we expose people to the more chance of getting them to connect with our particular take on the hobby.

Just my two cents.

Cheers

Iain

Mob Justice now available!

'The Giant Brain':Small games, big ideas.

I'm not that fussed if the playtests are changed for published games that are available for sale, if thats whats wanted - that is, after all, the point of the exercise. However - and please take this the right way - if thats the case then I can't really see the reason why I would be buying into the stall? Mutualism is one thing but I would be paying without any real reason to be doing so apart from being a canny lad. Me dropping wouldn't have a massive financial effect on everyone else.

Neil

Take the King's shilling at http://www.omnihedron.co.uk/dutyandhonour/`

OK there looks to be some confusion creeping in here, and perhaps it came from a suggestion I made to Iain. I suggested that, as it was the game that he wrote that was in print, he should run a game of Mob Justice as a scheduled event and not leave it to the whims of Games On Demand. Those with published games should run them, then consider running other games.

However, this in no way precludes the running of playtests as part of the scheduled events. Things like Duty & Honour and, dare I say it, Hot War, are equally valid parts of the convention play experience and should be run. The basis of my point is that playtests for future games, by authors with work in print, should not take precedence over those games which are on sale, right there, on the booth.

Neil should totally be running D&H as part of the con schedule and not be forced to run it at a timeslot that perhaps doesn't suit his needs. Playtests should not be 'ghettoised', but authors with games in print should consider their existing works first.

Cheers
Malcolm

Contested Ground Studios

Can we replace one of the 2 Solipsist slots with Contenders?

or

Drop Hot War for Contenders since Hot War won't be for sale on the day - maybe Hot War playtest in the bar after hours?

+++
JoE
+++

Prince of Darkness Games
Rock N' Role-Play....

(Scroll up and read the latest proposed schedule, by the way. I keep editing it.)

Look at it this way. There's ten slots available and approximately 10 people buying into the stall. That suggests one slot per person buying in. (Some of those slots, like mine and Neil's, are playtests).

At the moment, David's being given leeway to have two slots, because he's releasing a game at the convention.

Joe, you're asking for a similar leeway - a slot for your established game plus one for your newly released game - which isn't unreasonable. But I don't think it should replace Solipsist (there's no reason to prefer your second slot to David's second slot) nor Hot War (that's Malcolm's only game running).

If anything should give way, I think that, with apologies to Pooka, it should be Shock. I'd hope it either:

a. It would find a home in Games On Demand.
b. We could schedule it in the (admittedly quiet) Sunday evening slot.
c. Both.

On playtests: if you wanted to give all playtests the boot, that'd be another option. It does seem rather unfair on Neil, but there's an argument for it.

Give me opinions and suggestions, of course.

Graham

No confusion really, just a thought that was bouncing round my head that I tagged onto a post where I maybe should have posted seperately. My bad.

Neil's point is totally valid, if he is buying in that should entitle him to one of the slots to run whatever he choose. Point well made.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

Cheers

Iain

Mob Justice now available!

'The Giant Brain':Small games, big ideas.

... then you should have thought about that before organising the event. At all.

It's really bad form to have a timetable up, have newbies offer to run games, and then pull the rug from under them. That's rubbish.

If you want to make it a CE thing, make it a CE thing. Let the rest of us know in advance.