I think that it's definitely worthwhile looking into. One of the main reasons that Cold City and DoN sold so well (for Conceptions at least) was that there were a lot on non-CE games of them being run. Heck, I don't think anyone in the CE group ran Cold City this con did they? And at least one of the DoN games (Scott's) was pretty much a CE-incest-fest when it came to players wasn't it?

So getting other people to run the games if they are interested, enthusiastic and talented GM's is a good idea. Quite how one would handle the logistics of quality control is another matter entirely and probably due a bit more thought.

~Geoff

Dread Fuzzy Blog

I'd say definitely worth it. That's why most roleplaying companies have a least an informal demo team (I've been a Man in Black, Missionary, Man in Cheese, Agent of Far Despatch, Director). Encourage people to run your games and other will be encouraged to buy them.

Even running them at the small independent one day cons can make a difference. I mean, you're not going to sell thousands nor probably even tens on the back of them but you might sell one or two and that will get the ball rolling. That's my experience of running one-shot indie games at Steve Con in the UK and France.

It's a kind of viral, word of mouth thing.

Some companies have reward schemes. SJ Games notably gives you $10 of stuff for every hour of support and sends me a Christmas card. I'm not suggesting you go that far but even if some people will do it for love this encourages people to do more. And if you are giving out things then it's easier to do quality control on what people are running.

A common way is to give a cut of any books sold off the back of the game.

Graham

Very good point. Fans running games at cons should be a key goal for the CE.

Any ideas on how we can achieve it?

I'm less worried about quality control - we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Plus GMless games can't be ruined by bad GMing...

+++
JoE
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Prince of Darkness Games
Rock N' Role-Play....

Nope, but they can be ruined by one bad player (usually).

Anyhow, don't just think of cons, but local clubs too. Rich Stokes has kindly ran a number of things for the Pompey Guild, and will again when he gets round to running Umlaut for us properly (hint hint). Tricky to arrange of course, but might be worth considering.

Also, I'd never run a game for a con that I wasn't comfortable with. Meaning, if it was wacky new stuff I'm not used to, I'd wanna play it first, then run it at the club. Getting folk used to the game before a big con is gonna increase the chances of them running it quite a bit.

One more thing, posting actual play from your con or club games on the various forums (not just this one) will get you alot more bang for your buck. Not only with strangers but also with the players who were in the game being reminded "Oh yeah, that was me! Oh, so that's what that game was called, it was pretty cool! Gonna buy now!".

One thing I would also encourage is pointing out where the good stuff is coming from the game and where the good stuff is coming from the GM.

I had an inspired game of Conspiracy of Shadows at Furnace. It was all slavic gothic blood opera goodness. However, having read the blurbs about CoS I haven't a clue whether this was the default setting for CoS, a hack, a standard style game or whathaveyou. I've been cautious about buying the game because of this.

Some post game informed chat would be perfect, although I suppose thats what the booth is about as well.

Neil

Take the King's shilling at http://www.omnihedron.co.uk/dutyandhonour/

Another point to consider:

Any game being "demo'd" is being run by one person who understands the game. GM or not, he's responsible for explaining the game to the other people at the table. If he fucks it up and they don't really understand the game, or if he puts emphasis on a different part of the mechanics which skews the experience, then you have a ruined session.

For example, Claire played a Demo of Inspectres at Gaelcon. Adam ran it. Adam had never run Inspectres before. Claire has no idea whether she likes that game, she has no idea how it actually works. God bless Adam for being a great bloke and a very lovely chap, but really, someone demoing a game ought to have at least run it a couple of times before and be confident with the mechanics and play structure.

Okay, but how do you find those delegated GM's / demo people? How do you get them your game, train them how to run it for people, and then persuade them to do so at cons where you aren't?

Outside of the formal reward systems that companies like SJG have, most of these 3rd party demos are done by people who've picked up the game and like it, which is how it should be, but there is no control over that. You don't get them to run your game, they just choose to run it because they bought it and liked it.

Even when we send CE members to cons they tend to either run their own games, or a few other games that they know and like. We could try doing something where we have a list of games to run for each con and find someone for each one, but we would really be running the risk of having some of us go out and run games we don't know well, or don't feel enthusiastic about, which helps no one.

http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

David,

Yeah, that's basically it. People need to run games they feel comfortable with. Someone who buys your game and runs it a bit or a lot might like it enough to run it at a con. Maybe no-one will. Them's the breaks as far as I can tell.

If you have an active community who use a central forum, you can post something like "Who's going to BlahCon? Would anyone mind running Solipsist, I'll be your best mate?" or offering a bribe you feel comfortable with. But really, I don't see that there's much more you can do. Offering bribes might encourage someone to run the game at a con when they're not really familiar with it. A bad session of a game run at a Con (or a game being run by a GM/Volunteer who's a twat) could seriously hurt the game's reputation.

Do you think we might actually make things worse by asking people (for example on here) to run our games for us, because then you raise the chance that someone will end up running a game they don't like that much, or don't know so well, which would actually be worse for the players than not playing at all?

I think it's very much an issue for the games on demand concept, since that raises the chance of someone ending up running a game they don't know that well.

http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

I'd say just ask people you trust to do a good job. If they're willing GMs then they probably quite happy to run your game, if they like it.

Spreading the indie vibe since 2002.

Putting out an open call or merely offering bribes is not going to cut it. GenCon have historically been desperate for GMs and I've suffered some of the worst four hours of my life at that convention (Worst Four Hours in Gaming - got a certain ring to it), due to underprepared or poor GMs.

Hearing words like "I read this on the train on the way up" or "I like to play fast and loose with the rules" really makes me sick.

I would suggest actively recruiting from people you've played with, at Conventions or wherever. e.g. Diff'rent Stokes has run things for the Pompey lot and there's a strong Indie core down there. I'm sure one or two of those could be recruited. A few years ago I was approached to run a game or two at GenCon when they were shy of refs, based on previous performances.

I imagine each individual has to make a decsision on whether they want others to run their games? If you don't get to Cons, clubs or whatever though, your games aren't getting the exposure they could be doing.

Crucially, GMs have got to want to run things, so rewards don't need to be outstanding. If people love Cold City (for example) then they'll want to run it (as seen at Conception). You might be able to tap into this. Observe a bit of the game - if it looks good offer the GM a bit of something. "Tell you what mate, that was cool, can you run that in another couple of slots and I'll bung you the Companion / give you a free pdf / love you and make babies together".

Be selective, don't assume you're going out to recruit an army and think about getting one or two people who are going to pimp your games willing, enthusiastically and correctly and you'll get a few more sales out of it and a wider audience for your masterpiece.

Gaz

Which of course is back to the assumption that you (not you the reader, specifically, but you the author of a game) are there at some con to recruit the GM's.

What I'm wondering is if there is something we can do in a more structured way to get some CE member's games more exposure. Maybe look at the games that don't get played as much as others, but which the authors are still wanting to promote, and see if we can find someone to run them somewhere?

It might be a bad idea of course :)

http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

My name's Joe and I GM indie games.

I GM a mixture of American indie games and a couple of CE games. So far, only about three CE games have really inspired me to run them. But for example, I've run Contenders at every con I've attended in the last two years or so. And I've probably sold a few copies off of that. So go me.

More American games have appealed to me. So I've run TSOY, Polaris, and a couple of other things. Not because they're American, but because the designs appeal to me, and that's something I want to share. And have sold a few copies of them too.

JoeP has never offered me anything in return for me GMing Contenders. I don't think we've ever even had a conversation about me running stuff. And to be honest, I'd probably find it very weird. Once his game is published, it's not any of his business what I do with it. If all I run is a variation on Contenders with random encounter tables and a hex map, that's not his business. And I can't imagine what he would do if I did run a game like that - could he stop me? Discredit me? Would anyone care, or would it just look moronic?

I've been credited in a bunch of books, and that's cool. It's an inspiration, too. But I've never run a game in order to earn that. And I honestly can't think of a bribe - besides actual wages - that would buy my GMing.

I get what you are saying Joe, but isn't that the difference between running a game at a con, as an activity, and demo'ing a game at a con.

In the first case you run what you want, how you want, because its a game you like. You took it to the con because you wanted to play it, and play it with other people. The person who wrote the game doesn't owe you anything for that, and they certainly don't have any say over how you do that.

In the second, though, you are running the game because you want to show it to others, and get them to play it. In that case you do have a certain push towards running it as written, because how else are you showing others the game. Moreover if you are running it *because* the author asked you, and you agreed to help, then I think they do have something of a say, and sure, it's not odd to reward you in some way for doing it, even if it is just to thank you profusely online, or to run your game in return.

http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

Hmm. I'd never really thought of running a game for one reason or the other. My games, whether one hour demos or full-on four hour sessions, are there to provoke creativity, provide a safe environment for expression, evoke emotions, inspire and entertain. They absolutely have to be fun. And entertained people tend to go off and buy.

In short demos, I do try to expand on some of the rules that weren't covered, towards the end of the hour. Coz that would suck up front. I also try to give a sense of what the game does best. But to begin with, I am trying to provide - or help the group provide their own - entertainment.