Oh boy...
So far I have had FIVE (yes, FIVE) different pieces of feedback from playtests about the order in which my text should come - and yes, you have guessed it, each one says something different.
At first I tried the pretty standard 'chargen, system, frills' that so many books use but that didn't seem to work. After that I tried 'system, chargen, frills'. Nope. Then I tried 'Core System, Chargen, More System, Frills' and then I tried the 'never mention something that hasn't already been defined' method. Now someone is suggesting that I should have REGIMENT generation first, as it is the formation of the group rationale within the game and that helped massively with cementing character concept in their playtest.
Essentially I haven't got a scooby about whats to be done so I am turning to the wisdom of CE for a little guidance.
Neil


There's no right or wrong
Submitted by Andrew Kenrick on Fri, 08/02/2008 - 15:42.
There's no right or wrong answer here, as you've no doubt discovered!
The single most useful piece of advice I've been given on the matter was from Jason Morningstar, which was: lay the information out as you would encounter it when playing the game.
So the rules should reflect the process of playing through a game from start to finish and encounter rules and mechanics. So if the first thing you do when sitting down to play a game is make a regiment, then make characters, then shoot stuff, the rules should follow the same process.
But as I said, there is no right or wrong answer, just what ever works best for you.
I agree with Morningstar
Submitted by Graham W on Fri, 08/02/2008 - 17:30.
Write as if you're telling someone, who's sitting in front of you, how to play the game. So, if the first thing you do is make a character (as it usually is), start by saying how to make a character.
I find, sometimes, it's useful just to write a numerical list of instructions rather than a block of text, just to get the order in my head.
Graham
Good stuff so far
Submitted by Matt on Fri, 08/02/2008 - 19:43.
My suggestion is to frame the question - oh here's a surprise - from the angle of the person using the book.
Who is the person using the book?
How will they use it?
What order makes most sense for that usage?
What question will they ask at which points?
Graham's suggestion of an ordered list of points is good. If you know the order in which things will be needed in play, then that's a great starting point for writing/reading about it.
For some games with a setting-heavy approach, you might want setting first, to give people grounding. For others, situation generation might be needed first. Depends entirely on your priorities. It's just important you know what they are.
-Matt
Realms Publishing
Ten Pence Mix Up
Submitted by Neil Gow on Fri, 08/02/2008 - 22:26.
I'm currently re-writing the chargen section with an eye to a 'journey' that the character takes between their childhood and the start of the game. Doing it this way has meant that Regiment Creation (previously virtually the last thing that was done) sits quite near the start and it does seem more sensible and actually sorts out a lot of seperate issues further down the line.
The issue of setting is going to be a thorny one for me. I've had some feedback that the game doesn't have much 'Napoleonic Flavour for those that no nothing about the era'. I'm not sure what I can do about that. I've been considering writing a sort of 'Peninsular Primer' to fill in some of the most obvious gaps.
(I have to admit that this is a bit of a red flag baggage for me as I was once savaged in a review of some fanfic that I wrote that it was inaccessible to the non-comic reading reader. The piece was an Elseworlds tale of the E2 Legion of Superheroes, inspired by the JSA rather than the JLA. I tried to get the reviewer to point out what part of that premise suggested that it was something for the non-comic reading masses but she didn't get it. In some ways, I see D&H like that - its a napoleonic military roleplaying game - I'm wondering how much the potential players will expect me to spoon feed history and setting to them ... or if I can get away with 'Just watch an episode of Sharpe ffs!!' (joke!))
Cheers for the suggestions!
Neil
Take the King's shilling at http://www.omnihedron.co.uk/dutyandhonour/
Indeed.
Submitted by Tim Gray on Fri, 08/02/2008 - 22:47.
My suggestion is to frame the question - oh here's a surprise - from the angle of the person using the book.
Who is the person using the book?
How will they use it?
What order makes most sense for that usage?
What question will they ask at which points?
Well put. I would say additionally:
* Try to build up from the basics, notably so that terminology is introduced before being used. (Sometimes that's really hard and you have to compromise, because sections in RPGs tend to cross-refer.)
* The first bit needs to be an introduction to the game that gives the reader a brief overview of what it's going to be about and shows them why they should be interested.
* Work out where the cool is for your game and front-load it. That is, if you're using a fairly standard system but your wildly imaginative setting is the key thing, put at least some of that near the front so the reader gets the payoff that was promised. If you're designing a clever new set of rules for superhero gaming that mimic comics and are really easy to use, and then you give an example setting that's very much like a standard comics setting, the rules go up front cos they're the payoff.
Tim Gray
Silver Branch Games
www.silverbranch.co.uk
...
Submitted by Matt on Fri, 08/02/2008 - 23:19.
Yeah, good intro and a minimal of cross referencing=win.
I've had some feedback that the game doesn't have much 'Napoleonic Flavour for those that no nothing about the era'. I'm not sure what I can do about that. I've been considering writing a sort of 'Peninsular Primer' to fill in some of the most obvious gaps.
I reckon if you did a single page, where you crammed in as much flavour as possible. It'd be enough. If you edit it really tightly.
How much history are we give in Sharpe the TV series? There's an intro scroll, "1809, Wellington's Army has just entered Spain..." and then we're into what matters for these characters.
Tangent: If you could provide those kind of instant-in pickup history snippet intros, and work it into play prep...
-Matt
Realms Publishing
Saucy
Submitted by Neil Gow on Fri, 08/02/2008 - 23:31.
Tangent: If you could provide those kind of instant-in pickup history snippet intros, and work it into play prep...
ooooh, I like that. I like that a lot! Thanks Matt
Neil
When I read the first post
Submitted by David Donachie on Fri, 08/02/2008 - 23:53.
When I read the first post my instant thought was 'where is the setting'? Personally I like the setting information, even in a game with a setting I know something about, because how the setting is presented, the emphasis given in the game, is as important as the facts that are given.
I think others have already given great advice on how the rest of the book should go, and I'm no expert there, but I would definitely encourage you to have some setting and background (my preference would be a few pages, not just one), and to have it first. Just make sue that its purpose is to emphasise the theme and tone you want from the game, not just the facts.
http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/
Sorted
Submitted by Neil Gow on Sat, 09/02/2008 - 00:01.
Operation: Focused Chargen has been a palpable success tonight. I've trimmed out all of the extraneous system stuff into its own section and just left behind enough so that players will know what they are doing when they are creating characters. I've written it has a journey which has really focused what was important to the flow - so Regiment has been moved from last place in the process to near the front and it just feels so much more natural. I've also heaped in some flavour to the text by framing each section within a short conversational piece from an old soldier which tells the tale of his time in the army and that seems to work as well - informative without being overpowering gamefic.
Tomorrow I'm going to have a bash at a one page BAM! situation introduction and give the rest of the intro a polish as well.
Thanks for all the suggestions in this thread - it really has helped me get my head around something that was becoming a bit of a block for me.
Neil
Take the King's shilling at http://www.omnihedron.co.uk/dutyandhonour/
Setting handouts
Submitted by Tim Gray on Sat, 09/02/2008 - 09:14.
I'm quite a fan of being able to give players a handout with the basics they need to get going so they can read that rather than having to listen to me waffle on - and of course they can refer back to it too.
For some games this is particularly useful for chargen. Just to pick a random example ;) Questers has such a thing with a 2-line summary of the races and nations/areas, because the players have to choose from these when making characters.
Tim Gray
Silver Branch Games
www.silverbranch.co.uk
Setting
Submitted by Andrew Kenrick on Sat, 09/02/2008 - 17:30.
Speaking from the point of view of a potential player/customer who loves the idea of the game, but knows bugger all about the era, I'd say a page or so of flavour would be good. I don't want any sort of history text book, but I do want enough to get a feel for the setting and time period from the book ... enough for me to run the game without having to go and do a lot (any?) research.
Take a look at something like Polaris or Dogs for this - very tight and focused setting information, presented in such a way that you get an instant vibe for the setting and the game and no need to go away and find out more.
Some people like setting and some don't
Submitted by Graham W on Sat, 09/02/2008 - 20:08.
I'd put it in a chapter that David can read and I can skip.
Give me a summary, if you like, like Andrew says.
Graham
Sorted
Submitted by Neil Gow on Sat, 09/02/2008 - 21:11.
Thats sort of what I have decided on - at the start of the text there is one page which sets out the situation (Europe under the heel of Napoleon, Britain hanging on in Portugal, Wellington ready to march, the importance of detached light units etc.) and at the back some more essay style pieces addressing the themes and issues of the day. A handout is another option as well.
Cheers folks
Neil
Take the King's shilling at http://www.omnihedron.co.uk/dutyandhonour/