We're trying to feel that out in the thread below. Any ideas WRT my questions there? (I'm not being obtuse, I just don't know how Cons work, as I've never been to one...)

My idea was to discuss "GOD or IGT or both" aside from "How shall we organise GOD?".

GOD has, um... OD, which means we can snag all the folks between games or who didn't plan or get booked in.

The Kiwi version of GoD seemed to have "rounds". If I understand that right, they're essentially slots: you decide you're going to do GoD with your morning, you turn up at 10am and get allocated to or choose a game.

I think the idea of snagging folks between games is probably rather a red herring. I found it hard, last year, to get people to sign up for my Indie Games Track games, which started at times apart from the main slots.

I really like the idea of Games On Demand. We could even roll Indie Games Track into it as part of it, in some way. Personally, I think we should commit to one or the other.

I do feel that, whatever we do, we should stick to the main slots. That's slightly a side issue, but, well, also, if we did both GoD and IGT, I'd choose whichever one was scheduled with the main slots.

Graham

Cool. Sorry, I'm new to all of this. :P

That's right - Kapcon has three rounds of games per day, 3 hours each. We ran the games on demand room in the same rounds. Some people signed up to come and play with us, some just turned up at the beginning.

Then we canvassed the room for games people were keen to try, adding things we were keen to run if it seemed to be needed, until we had everyone sorted into a group. Luckily, we never got too many people.

We had 2 or 3 of us organisers present each round, and got between 8 and 13 other people turning up. That's out of 120 odd that came to the convention in total - I have no idea how that will compare to your numbers over there.

...again...

What I meant was: Having both IGT and GOD is a bad idea. I think we should choose one of them. I'm starting to like GOD better, because it's more like "I want to play this!"

In my experience people don't plan for IGT - they arrive, maybe with a few other things planned, glance at the track games offered, maybe sign up for one if they feel like it.

I think GOD could give more buzz - and deeper game experiences.

Per
http://darkplaces.squarespace.com

I'm leaning towards GOD - however we don't have a dedicated room like Kapcon. I think we have the mezzanine balcony which dosen't have great acoustics.
Is this right Gregor?
Canvassing for opinions might prove tricky. Also con regulars will be used to signing up for games on the stairs...

I don't know what the situation will be for a demo table. I'd favour having a permanent presence on it if we have one - try to grab passing punters for a quick game.

Just to throw a final spanner in the works - I think a playtest track has got potential!

+++
JoE
+++

Prince of Darkness Games
Rock N' Role-Play....

That was one of the things we found - a lot of people came in but when asked 'so, any games you want to try?' replied with comments like 'anything will be good'. Usually there were a few who had something in mind, and those choices started the ball rolling on picking games.

We had a whiteboard, too, which we used to track things that had been suggested (and votes for each, some rounds).

Another thing I forgot to mention first post - having all the games laid out on a table in the room led to it being a good social space in between rounds. There was always one of us in there to keep an eye on them, and we usually had a few visitors, skimming a game they were interested in or chatting about this or that.

My experience of Games on Demand at GenCon US this year was exceptionally frustrating. The explanation of what it actually meant was so vague that myself and my buddy could never figure it out - even when we had it explained to us!

It came down to a noticeboard with some offers to run games on them but no actual people to run them, cos they were running games. So you had to wait ... and wait ... and wait ... and (hang on, I'm paying good money to wait here, lets do something else) wait...

I got ONE game on demand at GC and that was a impromptu PTA game with Tony LB where I had to throw 24st of Geordie into a scrum to get two seats!

Its the 'On Demand' thing. To me that says 'I walk up to the area, point at a waiting GM and say 'Hey, you, run X for me!' and he says 'Sure Mr Con-Goer Sir!' and we game. In actuality what it appears to be is 'Random Slot Time: Turn up and pick up a game thats on offer rather than one thats planned'

I think some clear guidelines and explanation of the ideas would be essential for con noobs.

Oh and yes, a playtest game option within GoD would be nice *cheeky grin*

Neil

Take the King's shilling at http://www.omnihedron.co.uk/dutyandhonour/

I hated the Track format when it had slots different from the main slots, because it meant missing a whole slot to do a 15 minute game. I talked to lots of people who had the same issue, and thus didn't do them.

I'd like to be able to do Indie games for a whole slot, with multiple games within that slot, possibly picked from a list available for that slot, rather than a strict schedule.

So we pick GM's who can be in a given slot, list the games they are able to run, and then have that list to choose from during that slot. That way we are guaranteed to have people available, and to run something, but still give people choice.

http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

How long are the standard slots?

There are real downsides about not having experience with cons...

The Conpulsion gaming slots are on the timetable.

Events are also up too.

Basically...

Sat Morning 11am - 2pm (3 hrs)
Sat Afternoon 3pm - 7pm (4 hrs -- yes, a longer slot)
Sat Evening 8pm - 11pm (3 hrs)

Sun Morning 11am - 2pm
Sun Afternoon 3pm - 7pm (again, note the longer slot)
Sun Evening 8pm - 11pm

Edit: Oh, we're also on the website, which shows how good the con organiser, Jo, is.

:-)

...and I have pics of the balcony space that I'll get online next week. The acoustics are somewhat untested, in that I've been up there but not during a con.

There have been a few games played up there (Shevy, you played Buffy there, any comments?) and I could ask around. It will be in the heart of the con, though and the stairs are right next to the CE booth. The banner (or banners) could be hung prominently to attract attention and I'm sure curious gamers could be tempted up the satirs if it is made a welcoming space.

Accountics on the balcony can be a little odd, I'll give you that. Individual games in the main mezz can seem quite loud when you're upstairs, but mMore games on the floor actually soften the effective sound level on the balcony. Odd, but then Teviot has never been a particularly sane building.

My first ever Conpulsion game was run up there though, and a Cold City game during a busy-ish week, and it was just fine.

Shevaun

So, we need to come to some kind of consensus. What do you think?

Graham

I really like David's idea (and he knows how rarely I say that) (I kid!).

Each slot breaks down into subslots. Games take one, two, or three subslots. Assume some voting and organisation time at the beginning, and a little leeway and padding. And if we have sufficient tables, we can have overlapping groups.

I've put an explanatory spreadsheet online. Because that's how I roll.

This is not a prescriptive spreadsheet. This is more a description of what we could end up with.

On the day itself, we have someone on a laptop and someone on a whiteboard. At the beginning of a slot, we get players together and tell them what games could run in the subslots. Players vote, and whiteboard-guy tallies. We end up with, eg, a table running Polaris for an hour followed by Contenders for two and then an empty subslot, or a table with Dirty Secrets for two hours and then Mob Justice.

In advance, we get as many GMs to say what games they can run and when. At the con, they add provisos if they're playing stuff too. And if people can be flexible, GMs just hanging about can get into games that don't have full tables.

I think this makes a lot of sense, and gives us a variety of session lengths, depending on the game.

I'm still interested in RPGs for kids, but think we should designate a slot in advance for that. Joe Murphy already said he'd be interested in running Tiny Triangles, and I'm up for running Faerie's Tale.

Any thoughts on that?

It all strikes me as quite complicated actually and leads to the possibility of people who are finished after one hour not wanting to play the second game and just ... floating. Is it really that hard to run a three hour slot?

Neil

Take the King's shilling at http://www.omnihedron.co.uk/dutyandhonour/

Just to chip in:

I think one hour games are pants. As I've said before, a 15-30 minute "demo" slot gives players a taste for a game perfectly well. A 3 - 4 hour slot gives them a "proper" session. One hour just doesn't really provide that: it's too long for a demo and too short for a satisfying game.

Look at Gaelcon. Hopeless organisation and Mr Bean style scheduling on the part of the Con organisers aside, I think that every single one hour game ran over. Joe and I played a "one hour" Polaris game which lasted 2 and a half hours and still felt like there was a lot missing.

I'd suggest:

* Line up the slots with the regular con slots.
* Run 3/4 hour games mostly.
* Make one or two of the 3 hour slots "Indie Sampler" slots, where you run 4X30 min games. Each one can over run and there's still time for breaks, sales and discussion.
* Have slotted games scheduled. I'm not saying don't do G.O.D, but my experience with other Cons is that people loot at the schedule and want to plan their time so that they're busy playing something in every slot with no wasted time. A lot of people will sign up for games which are advertised and aren't used to having to ask to play. We had this a lot in the Dragonmeet feedback: People wanted to see the schedule of when we were running demos so they could plan their day, they didn't want to ask for a demo off the cuff.
* If this con has sign up sheets for slotted games, I highly recommended creating a sign up sheet for the G.O.D area. Just make sure you figure out how many people you can accommodate and don't let more people than that sign up. Also make sure the sheet states exactly what games are available. Last thing you want is someone signing up to your G.O.D. and then demanding that you run a table for Living Whatever Module µ¤§4: Swamp of the Nympho Amazon Queen which they missed last year because their barbarian character only needs 400 more XP and then he can buy Rolling Cleave.

That's good, Rich.

I'd like us to be able to respond organically to demand for stuff. I ran Polaris at gaelcon on day 2 because we didn't have the players on day 1. I'd like to learn from the punters if us running a slot of say, Contenders is a waste when they're really persuaded by Umlaut.

I also think that a sort of 'gaming auction', where people get to vote on games could be fun (both to organise, run and play).

Neil,

It's not *hard* to run a three hour slot. I just don't want to at cons, generally.

My previous impression of the shorter games, as a punter, was the added value I felt I was getting in the number of things I did.

Often you come away from a con with 3 slots having done 3 things, or worse 2, because you had to sacrifice a whole slot to visit the dealers and stuff like that. A slot where you get to try 3 games rocks, because you did 5 things that day instead of 3!

However that only works when your shorter things are satisfyingly resolved in that time. Running a demo of a game where you take some pre-gen characters through a single conflict to give a taste of the system is fine, playing halfway through a story you get invested in and then stopping is not fine.

http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

Totally agree. That's what G.O.D's for, right?

You just organise G.O.D. into slots which are the same length as the rest of the con slots. People sign up for a GOD slot in advance (or turn up at the start, but getting them to sign up works better) and then you say "What do you want to play?" and do the whole auction/vote thing. Then they get to play for 2.5/3.5 hours. The slot ends, they get to go on and choose exactly what they do in the next slot (which might well be more GOD, or might be Living Nympho Barbarian Whatever).

I suppose the advantage of GOD is that, if all the players were really invested in a game you could continue it. Maybe break the GOD timetable into three 1-hour slots for each standard RPG slot, so that after an hour of play the -players- could decide whether to continue their game for another hour, or move on to try something different? So folks like David could try another GOD Game, and people more into a few experiences could sit down and play through a full session? Put short-run games at the end of the slots, and BAM! Best of both worlds.

Unless that's untenable for some reason I'm not aware of.

The problem with that is that mostly you can't start a game with four people and then finish it with only 2 if the other 2 want to go off and do something else.

Question: How many tables are there? That really dictates how things ought to be organised.

I think whether or not you can have two players leave is an issue of the game, honestly. I can see playing on in a game of Shock where two people leave, and two people wanting to leave means Bliss Stage is drawn to a fast conclusion. But yeah, I take your meaning.

However, it's a better compromise than focing a disinterested player to stay for the whole slot - I mean, is there any real reason someone couldn't just leave, anyway?

Was your comment even in response to me, actually? :P

Con games have been running this way for years. It's what punters expect: You sign up in advance for a game in a given slot, you play that game in that slot and then you move on to the next slot. It it's a 3 hour slot, the game lasts 3 hours. People expect to be entertained for that 3 hour slot.

If the objective is to be part of the con as a whole, and thereby get more people playing these games who might not otherwise, then we have to sort of bow to the way things work and what the punters expect. If it's to be our own (I hesitate to say insular) minicon within Conpulsion, then we can totally disregard the timetable and what most of the people want.

If someone wants to run two games in a given slot, I wouldn't sign up unless I wanted to play both. For example, if Joe's running a slot which is an hour of Shab-Al-Hiri Roach and an hour of Grey Ranks, I'd pass, because I have zero interest in Grey Ranks. I'd rather go and play something else (anything else which looks interesting) because otherwise I'm going to spend half a slot sat about with nothing to do. I'd also pass because I've not found Roach to be very satisfying in a one hour format. A one hour "tester" game is pointless for me: I've played it before, I know I like it. I'd be well up for a full game though.

Thanks, guys. This is really good stuff. I'm happy to take a few more days to settle on what we do. It'll give some of the people with proper jobs - not that IT stuff - a chance to wade in at the weekend.

While I'd like GOD to be a different to how cons work, your point is a good one, Rich. Sell the punters what they expect, then tweak it a bit. There shoudn't be a learning curve to joining, along with playing.

I would rather run in or play full-slot games, personally. I guess the real question is, do many people feel like David does? If not, then (sorry David) we can just stick to the standard format.

Like I said, I prefer the latter. I was just trying to find some means by which we could compromise. :)

Well the whole point of the Indie Games Track in the past has been to let people try games that they have not encountered before, hence the sampler nature of the format. Rather than trying a whole session of, say, Solipsist, they can play through a few scenes with pre-generated characters and get a feel for it. You can do that in a way not synchronized with the main slots like we did before, which is a bad idea, or synchronized.

Whether that is the right way to approach it, is a different question. It is based on the assumption that you have lots of games no one has seen before, and that those games have such weirdly different gaming styles that a quick sampler is what people are after, to dip their toes in the water. If people are more familiar with, say, Best Friends, then they would be much more interested in a full game than a 30 minute teaser.

So I guess the question is, are the games we will be offering weird and wonderful novel experiences that we want to tempt the nervous punters into trying ... or are they things they have heard of before and just want a good game of?

http://www.solipsist-rpg.com/

OK, this isn't my sort of thing.

I was happy to run a few games, but now we're talking about shorter games, about having children there, about people leaving halfway through and so on. All too complicated for me.

It's also feeling less like a communal effort, now, and more like Joe's thing. That's all cool, but not for me.

I'll sign up to run something in the main slots. Either indie games or Gumshoe, haven't decided. Probably a combination.

Graham