...for a long book like that please keep it as A4 or Letter format.

I find the thickness of SOTC and Burning Empires to be too much in that format.

Personally I think it would be nice to do a hardback edition, maybe as a deluxe option or whatever.

You could split the book into two main sections with maps, or something neutral, in the middle of the book? Put the players stuff at the front.

Oh yes, for a book that currently stands at 180 A4 pages, one of the smaller formats would be unreasonably bulky. The previously cited Burning Empires is a good example of the issue.

I like the idea of having one book, split in to sections.

I do not have much to add that is creative.

Cheers
Malc

Contested Ground Studios

* The existing Player's Book is a patriotic A4 size. Merits of other formats? (For this I'd need convincing to go to small pages, I think.)

Well, Letter size is the more prevalent format in America if you're planning on making a PDF document for people to print.A4 and Letter size are pretty close in terms of dimensions so there isn't much problem with translating from one to the other, but in my experience Letter fits onto A4 paper better than A4 fits onto Letter sized paper. That's only for PDF though.

For print, I consider the length of the book to be the largest contributing factor in the size of the page. I'd rather have a chunky digest-sized book than a slimline letter-sized book because they're less prone to damage, more portable, and feel more substantial, more value-for-money. My general rule of thumb is that if it's going to be less than 100 pages in A4 (including art) then make it a smaller format of book. If it's going to be more than 250 pages in small format, definately a larger one. I totally agree with Gregor (particularly over Burning Empires - the main reason I never bought a copy of that is its ungainly brick-like size.)

Then there are the 'odd' page sizes, such as square books and the like. These are a mixed blessing. They certainly have gimmick appeal and wil catch the attention more readily when stacked next to more conventional volumes, but they may also put some people off because of their unusual appearance. Still, I do love the square format. For one thing, it emulates widescreen, which is great for that cinematic atmosphere. For another it allows you to keep really wide margins (great for side-notes and things) without constraining the amount of space you have for important game information.

* The original plan was to split Player and GM content between books. There's certainly stuff that players should uncover gradually, without spoilers. Keep that idea? One integrated book? All-in-one book plus extra Player's Guide a la Savage Worlds?

Again, I think this is going to depend on the length. If you can get each book to a substantial size (and the 100 page mark is a good one again here I think) then separate books are certainly an option. If you're going to end up with pifflingly small books, or one is a great deal larger than the other, then it's better to combine.

On this subject, have you considered printing back-to-back? That is, the player's section starts from the 'front' cover, and the GM section is printed upside down starting from the 'back' so that whichever way up you hold the book, the first section is upright and the book opens in the usual manner. Mechanical Dream used this format. It does have the disadvantage that you don't have anywhere to put the advertising blurb, although this can be alleviated if you have an insert placed over the rear cover and shrink-wrapped to it, and the index must be placed at the beginning of each side of the book or in the very middle making it less intuitive to find. It's not a perfect solution since it's not too hard to read upside down and pretend you're reading the player's section while really reading the GM's, but it does make it a little easier and more economical printing-wise to have two books bound into one cover.

Ash

I agree that whatever the size pdf they're selling is, it printed out fine for me here in Canada.

I would definitely be in favor of an all-in-one format for obvious reasons. (I'd have the whole game then!) ;)

Player info to the front; GM to the back would be a fine, traditional layout.

Printing it like the old "2-books-in-one" format, where one is upside down to the other and back to back, would be nostalgic for me anyway.

And I wouldn't mind a crack at a hardcover version.

Whatever the format DON'T CHANGE THE GAME SETTING! We really enjoy it and have no wish to have the "horse thing" included. LOL

Forgive me, a slight divergence but, horse thing? Don't tell me you've included the Nuckelavee? :D

Ash

a) Yes, as I recall both the old Nucker =:0 and the Water Horse are in the Book of Samhain supplement. (For info - this is a mini-supp I put out *cough* years ago with part of the content slated for the GM's Book, as I'd finished that and the rest was looking distant.)

b) But I *think* the comment actually relates to a note I put in the introduction about the non-inclusion of Celtic stuff like kingship practices that involved female horses.

Tim Gray
Silver Branch Games
www.silverbranch.co.uk

Yeah - that's actually the reason why SotC has been sitting here unread for a year! So I'm pretty much persuaded on that front.

A hardback version would certainly be nice for *me*, and probably a few other people who've been involved with it over a long period, even if no-one else wants it. Which pushes it toward Letter rather than A4.

I should probably own up explicitly that this is my fantasy heartbreaker! (Not in the sense of being hacked D&D, but of attempting to have an impact in the market.)

Tim Gray
Silver Branch Games
www.silverbranch.co.uk